OK, so podcast regulation isn’t the sexiest topic to talk about.
But, it is important. Really important, in fact. And it impacts anyone who creates podcasts.
Understandably, when people think about regulation, they see it as negative (‘you can’t do that,’ ‘that’s against the rules, ’ etc.). But regulation can be positive, too. It helps level the playing field for creators and holds the big players to account. It also ensures the industry keeps a good reputation.
And we already rely on regulation for a whole bunch of things, like how we make money from our podcasts, benchmark success, and keep the industry open and free.
But the main reason you should really have regulation on your radar right now is that things are changing. Some recent developments suggest podcast regulation is about to impact us all more than ever before.
I caught up with a few folks at the forefront of podcast regulation to find out where they see things moving. Let’s dive into how podcasting is (and isn’t) regulated right now and how it might work in the future.
Podcast Regulation: Where Is It Headed?
As you might already know, podcasting isn’t officially regulated in the way that other media is, like TV and radio. The only exception is Canada, where (as of last year) any podcast that earns more than $10 million in annual revenue needs to register with the national broadcast regulatory body).
But regulation still exists in a loose form for the rest of us. It’s just that it’s voluntary rather than enforced.
There are four core ways podcast regulation works:
1. Podcast Measurement
How we measure the success of our podcasts, and of individual episodes, is quite an individual thing. For example, maybe you like to focus on your follower numbers, listen time or even Patreon subscribers to judge how well your show is doing.
But there is a measurement criteria that advertisers use to quantify success when choosing which podcast to work with and what to pay them – and that’s downloads. This is because listeners download an episode to listen to it, which is different from broadcast media, which we consume live.
Most advertisers pay podcasters based on the number of downloads an episode gets. For example, $25 per 1,000 downloads in the first 30 days is around the current going rate. Even if an advertiser is willing to work with a podcast with lower numbers because they have a highly engaged niche audience, they’ll still often pay based on download numbers.
The problem is that downloads aren’t a reliable indicator of audience engagement. Some listening apps automatically download episodes to a device if a listener is subscribed to that show. This happens even if that subscriber hasn’t listened to an episode for years. Apple recently removed auto downloads, and this has had a huge impact on many creators’ numbers. Maybe the change hit yours, too.
So, it seems we’re seeing a slow shift away from relying heavily on downloads as an industry-wide success metric. Podcast growth agency Bumper also just launched its own Bumper Dashboard, which prioritises metrics like listening time and verified listeners (people who actually hit ‘play’) over downloads.
Podcast measurement is loosely regulated by the IAB via the Podcast Measurement Technical Guidelines. They update the guidelines semi-regularly to encourage the industry to adhere to a certain standard of practice that will create a fairer market for podcasters.
Captivate is the first hosting platform to become IAB-certified. I spoke to Mark Asquith, the company’s Managing Director, about the important role hosting platforms play in podcast measurement regulation. He said:
“When it comes to the data and the measurement of podcasting, the future of regulation is quite a complex subject. It’s something I believe will require constant refinement and diligence from hosting platforms.
Ultimately, the role of a hosting company is to provide the best data to advertisers and podcasters. At the minute, the industry is placing a heck of a lot of value on the download file, but we can’t generally give too much credibility to the intent of a listener when it comes to what they’re gonna do with that file. Are they actually going to listen to it?
As more ad dollars flow into the space, I think we’re going to see more focus on the person behind the download – trying to find ways of really figuring out what a person is doing now.
This is because a listener’s intent is much more valuable to advertisers.
The reality is that if we want our industry to continue growing, advertisers are the people who will keep the money flowing through. So ultimately, the industry will continue to move towards satisfying their needs. We have to do what the people bringing money into the industry need us to do to keep the industry growing.
As time progresses, I think we’re going to see more specialised regulation tools crop up. It’s a very fascinating space and will be interesting to watch this develop.”
— Mark Asquith, Managing Director and Co-Founder of Captivate
2. Podcast Standards
Ever heard the term ‘Open Podcasting’? In a nutshell, it’s the system (facilitated by RSS feeds) that allows you to freely publish, share and monetize your show.
Over the years, there’s been some debate over whether a podcast needs to have an RSS to be considered a podcast. This is because some hosting platforms like Spotify have invested a lot of money in exclusive shows. Shows that are exclusive to one listening platform don’t have an RSS, meaning listeners can only access them on Spotify and nowhere else.
Some see this move towards a walled garden—otherwise known as ‘closed podcasting’—as a substantial threat to the industry.
In response, a coalition emerged last year called the Podcast Standard Project. The project aims to protect open podcasting by building on what makes it great, and enhancing that even more.
Sam Sethi is an industry figure who is doing a lot right now to try and standardise and improve how we consume podcasts.
“Through two projects – the Podcast Standards Group and Podcasting 2.0, we’re creating new standards to make podcasting better for audiences, podcasters and developers.
With Podcasting 2.0, we’re developing new tags/features that extend the value of RSS feeds (e.g person tags, chapters, transcripts) making the listening experience more standardised for audiences.
Through the Podcast Standards Group (PSP) we’re building new certifications for both hosts and apps. The PSP takes tags developed by Podcasting 2.0 developers, ratifies them and then ensures hosts and apps implement them in order to qualify for PSP certification. ”
— Sam Sethi, Chief Evangalist of the Podcast Standard Project
Essentially, Sethi and his collaborators are working towards a goal where podcast creators and fans alike can benefit from many new cool tools and features, without the trade-off of having to only publish or listen on one particular platform.
Bryan Barletta from Sounds Profitable sits on the other side of the fence when it comes to protecting Open Podcasting. He believes it’s the closed systems that don’t rely on RSS that will see the most growth in future. He said:
“The essence of podcasting is wrapped in the value of being open and unburdened, allowing creators to have full control of their content and distribution.
But all of the things that make podcasting unique also conflict wildly with both the media and advertising industries.
Podcasting wouldn’t be where it is without the openness that led to this point, but it’s incredibly clear that much of that openness will need to be sacrificed in the pursuit of growing our industry overall, as solutions like YouTube and other avenues provide more structure and opportunity for podcasts.
This doesn’t mean an end to the openness, but giant companies with walled gardens will be the fastest growth we continue to see in this industry overall. Aligning the enormous amount of companies in podcasting – many with conflicting or competitive goals – to push for our unified standards has just not provided the results we need to date.”
— Bryan Barletta, Founder at Sounds Profitable
3. Copyright & AI
As AI technology ramps up, copyright regulation is becoming more of a concern for podcasters. Voice cloning is already a threat. Those at the forefront of AI are already exploring the concept of a ‘proof-of-personhood’ system to reduce misuse of AI in podcasting by ‘bad actors’ (aka those who use AI to deceive others).
Voice cloning isn’t just a threat to creators, but listeners too. The folks at Masters of Scale recently put together a Bill of Rights for podcast listeners in the age of AI. The bill encourages podcasters to pledge they’ll always disclose if any material they use is AI-generated.
But even when podcasters aren’t trying to hide the fact they’re using AI, the water can get murky. Last year, we saw two podcasters threatened with a lawsuit over AI-generated video content they created of football player Tom Brady. And if you’ve ever watched the Joe Rogan AI experience, you’ll know we’re entering dodgy territory with this.
And as if that’s not enough to get your head around, a recent investigation found that a number of podcasters’ content on YouTube was being used by software companies to train AI bots.
Right now, podcasters are protected by copyright laws just like any other creators. If we use the work of others, we will typically seek permission or credit them, depending on factors like use case, context, and Creative Commons licences.
But what if we use a generative AI tool that uses another creator’s content without our knowledge?
This is where using AI tools for creating podcast content can become dangerous. Using AI for things like idea generation or coming up with interview questions is fine, but giving these tools the reins to create entire scripts for your show, for example, could easily land you in hot water.
Our Head of Marketing, Jacob, had a great point to make about how AI might be regulated in future:
“It’s 2024, and any kid with a smartphone can deepfake public figures. That’s particularly easy when it’s voice only. For now, video is where it falls down in terms of cost and quality.
So that begs the question: How do you regulate a fundamentally free and open way to broadcast yourself when bad actors and pranksters can easily make anybody say anything and collect a cheque from their dynamically inserted ads for Soylent Green?
It’s not unique to podcasting, but it’s uniquely easy to generate high (enough) quality audio with AI at a price that almost anybody can afford. To avoid punitive regulation, the podcasting community needs to start thinking about how we force transparency around AI content, perhaps as a feature of the RSS feed itself, and how we prove that the host is who they say they are.
We must figure this out as a free and open community, or it will be done for us in a way we will not enjoy one bit.”
— Jacob Anderson, Head of Marketing at Alitu.
This idea that transparency around AI could be built into RSS feeds is interesting. Perhaps we’ll see something like this emerging from the Podcasting 2.0 team in the near future.
4. Misinformation
Right now, there are no laws specific to podcasting regarding the spread of misinformation. However, the same laws apply to podcasting as they do to any media regarding hate speech, libel, and spreading misinformation.
But the problem at the moment is that misinformation is hard to track in podcasting. Those who peddle it often do it without any repercussions either.
Misinformation spreading is also hindering advertisers’ full investment in podcasting. There’s an element of risk that they might advertise with a show that’s later accused of spreading misinformation or conspiracy theories that could damage the brand’s reputation.
New AI-powered tools have emerged in recent years that use machine learning to scan podcast content for anything untoward, like hate speech or racist or misogynistic language. For example, Barometer is a brand safety and suitability app designed for advertisers to remove risk when choosing podcasts to advertise with.
I spoke with Carl Hartley, a lecturer in journalism practice, who is also a broadcast journalist for the BBC. Interestingly, Carl thinks tackling misinformation is best left to podcasters themselves.
“I think as a podcaster, you have a responsibility for your audience. You have to be truthful, you have to be honest. You don’t put out misinformation, disinformation and fake news.
But your audience also has a responsibility to not just take things as facts. It relies a lot on the trust that’s built between you and your audience – and I think that’s the key to a good podcast.
As soon as a presenter starts putting misinformation out there, they’re going to lose that trust from their audience. As a presenter, you have a responsibility to make sure the information that you’re putting out there is factual. I think as podcasters, there needs to be a policing of themselves. They they need to regulate it themselves.
I do feel that if a country [like Canada] brings in a full on regulator or a national broadcasting code it could then start to interfere with the freedom to create of podcasters. Suddenly, there are gatekeepers and you’ve got to follow rules as to what you can put into the podcast, and I feel that would take away what a podcast is all about.
— Carl Hartley, Broadcast Journalist for the BBC and Lecturer in Journalism Practice at the University of Leeds.
The Future of Podcast Regulation Lies With The Community
As our industry matures, the issue of regulation naturally becomes more urgent. Formal regulation may not be the answer, but it’s clear that the current regulatory standards still leave a lot to be desired.
As a community, we need standards we can follow to help us make more money from our podcasts and prevent misinformation-spreading from ruining the industry’s reputation. We need to feel confident that our content isn’t at risk of AI plagiarism. We need regulations that guide us without stifling our creativity.
What’s really important is that creators stay engaged and informed. Regulation might not be the most exciting topic in podcasting, but as Jacob rightly said, the longer we avoid talking about it as a community, the more likely the big decisions around regulation will be made for us, and we won’t like that one bit.